Mindblown: a blog about philosophy.

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-278″>Andrew Jason Cohen</a>. Dan, I agree that Stalin and Krotus didn’t value freedom, but that’s not the same thing as saying that freedom is valuable. People can be wrong. It’s objectively valuable for human society to have freedom, and subjectivity about valuation doesn’t negate that. Think about protein. Protein is objectively…

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-278″>Andrew Jason Cohen</a>. “Freedom, autonomy, and toleration, for examples are all objectively valuable.” Well, no, none of those things are/were valuable to Hitler, Mao, Castro, Stalin, Xi, Lee Kwan , or Krotus. They are valuable to you and me. They are valuable to people who can reap the benefits of them,…

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-288″>Daniel L. Schmutter</a>. You might not have decided to pay! You might be like the person who wants to want to pay but knows they won’t if they aren’t coerced. You might also realize that it would be unfair to coerce others but not you.

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-287″>Aeon J. Skoble</a>. Yes. So you agree there are objective values. Why not go the extra step and say there are (or at least can be) objective facts about whether a life is (or, given certain choices, would be) better or worse?

“Typically, the claim is not that we merely want to be coerced individually, but that we want everyone (or everyone who can afford it) to be coerced in the specified way, so as to solve a collective action problem—we want ourselves and others to contribute to the solution to that problem but worry we won’t…

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-278″>Andrew Jason Cohen</a>. Andrew, I like this: “Free trade works because we subjectively value the things we trade. But we shouldn’t go from that to the idea that there is only subjective value.” Another way to put that is, it’s _because_ values of the sort you’re talking about are subjective, that…

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-285″>Andrew Jason Cohen</a>. I’ll have to watch out for that. 🙂

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-282″>Aeon J. Skoble</a>. I definitely have a platonic streak!

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-280″>Daniel L. Schmutter</a>. There are 2 possible responses: (1) it doesn’t matter if it’s fully objectively true, it’s intersubjectively true or something like that. (2) no, it really is objectively true. I accept #2. I’m not really sure about chocolate, but I am sure about values. Freedom, autonomy, and toleration, for…

In reply to <a href=”https://prosociallibertarians.com/2022/12/14/government-actions-arent-pareto-optimal-they-are-paternalist/comment-page-1/#comment-281″>Daniel L. Schmutter</a>. A side discussion with Aeon leads me to post a follow up. The payoff matrix for a prisoner’s dilemma is such that A’s payoff is always made worse at the margin by being coerced. A only benefits when B is coerced. Therefore, A’s situation can only be improved…